The Customer Success Playbook
Welcome to “The Customer Success Playbook,” a fresh podcast initiative spearheaded by Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon. Immerse yourself with us in the dynamic realm of customer success, where we unravel the latest insights, inspirations, and wisdom from recognized leaders in the Customer Success domain.
Our journey began with a simple yet profound belief: that meaningful conversations can significantly impact our professional trajectory. With this ethos, we’ve embarked on a mission to bring to you the voices of seasoned and revered professionals in the field. Our episodes have seen the likes of Sue Nabeth Moore, Greg Daines, Jeff Heclker, James Scott, David Ellin, and David Jackson, who have generously shared their expertise on a variety of pertinent topics.
We’ve delved into the intricacies of Profit and Loss Statements in Customer Success with Dave Jacksson, explored the potential of Customer Success Platforms with Dave Ellin, and unravelled the role of AI in Customer Success with all guests. With Sue, we navigated the waters of Organizational Alignment, while Greg brought to light strategies for Reducing Churn. Not to be missed is James insightful discourse on the Current Trends in Customer Success and Jeff’s thoughts on Service Delivery in CS.
Each episode is crafted with the intention to ignite curiosity and foster a culture of continuous learning and improvement among customer success professionals. Our discussions transcend the conventional, probing into the proactive approach, and the evolving landscape of customer success.
Whether you’re a seasoned veteran or a newcomer to the industry, our goal is to propel your customer success prowess to greater heights. The rich tapestry of topics we cover ensures there’s something for everyone, from the fundamentals to the advanced strategies that shape the modern customer success playbook.
Our upcoming episodes promise a wealth of knowledge with topics like CS Math, Training, AI, Getting hired in CS, and CS Tool reviews, ensuring our listeners stay ahead of the curve in this fast-evolving field. The roadmap ahead is laden with engaging dialogues with yet more industry mavens, aimed at equipping you with the acumen to excel in your customer success journey.
At “The Customer Success Playbook,” our zeal for aiding others and disseminating our expertise to the community fuels our endeavor. Embark on this enlightening voyage with us, and escalate your customer success game to unparalleled levels.
Join us on this quest for knowledge, engage with a community of like-minded professionals, and elevate your customer success game to the next level. Your journey towards mastering customer success begins here, at “The Customer Success Playbook.” Keep On Playing!!
The Customer Success Playbook
Customer Success Playbook S3 E46 - Mary Schmid - Listen To Connect not Correct
In this high-impact episode of the Customer Success Playbook, hosts Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon welcome Mary Schmid, MBA, a communication and leadership expert with a passion for rewiring how we listen. Mary reveals how to shift from surface-level exchanges to trust-building dialogues by embracing her "Conversational Edge" framework. Rather than defaulting to advice-giving, Mary urges professionals to pause and lean into connection-first listening. With a foundation in neuroscience, she explains how we unconsciously drop out of conversations every 12 to 18 seconds—and how to stay tuned in. If you think you’re a good listener, this episode might surprise you.
Detailed Analysis: This episode flips the script on what it means to be a "trusted advisor." Mary Schmid argues that client relationships are often eroded by a focus on proving expertise instead of demonstrating care. Using brain science as a guide, she introduces the idea that effective listening triggers the brain’s trust response. Listeners are walked through a conversational sequence that begins with understanding the situation, moves into exploring the client’s thoughts and emotions, and culminates in assessing the impact. The goal? Helping clients feel heard, not herded.
Mary deftly explains how traditional expertise-driven dialogue creates power imbalances, pushing clients into defensive, disengaged states. In contrast, her approach taps into the oxytocin-powered trust circuit by creating psychological safety. The episode offers practical examples and humorous insights—including Kevin getting called out for zoning out every few seconds (we’re looking at you, Kevin).
For business leaders and customer success professionals, Mary provides a vital reminder: real influence stems from emotional connection, not intellectual superiority. When you guide a client into collaborative discovery, rather than corner them with solutions, you spark engagement and build lasting loyalty.
Her parting wisdom? Respect begins with listening to connect, not correct.
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Customer success.
Roman Trebon:Hello everyone and welcome to the Customer Success Playbook podcast, where we bring you actionable insights to deepen your client relationships in drive success in your business. I'm your host, Roman Rebond, joined by my co-host Kevin Metzker. We're thrilled to kick off another fantastic week, and our guest today is someone who truly understands how to transform everyday conversations in the trust building experiences. Kevin, I I'm really excited about our guest today. I have my listening ears. I'm tuned in and ready to go. I'm totally focused. You excited for, uh, for what we have going on this week?
Kevin Metzger:I am. I am. And so joining us today is, uh, Mary Schmidt, MBA. Communications and leadership specialists who help countless functional professionals and high achievers elevate their conversations. Mary's conversational edge system applies neuroscience principles to help businesses shift from transactional advice to meaningful long-term client relationships. Mary, we're excited to have you here with us today. How are you?
Mary Schmid:I'm well, and thank you for the opportunity to address your audience and to have this lovely conversation that we're going to have.
Roman Trebon:Yeah. I'm super excited Mary, to have you on. Kevin. As you know, listening to clients is so important. It's like a, a skill that is so important, yet I feel like so many people don't do it effectively. Right. And, and, and you and I have talked about this in the past, so Mary, let's dive right into it. Okay. Considering your expertise, what's your number one tip for our audience to truly listen to what clients need beyond just the numbers and everyday formalities.
Mary Schmid:My number one tip is listen to connect, not correct
Roman Trebon:it. And here's the deal,
Mary Schmid:what happens in our brain? Let's go. Let's, let me introduce a little bit of brain science. What happens is when we're in conversations, we drop out of listening every 12 to 18 seconds. We're listening dropouts, every single one of us, myself included. And where do we go when we think about what they, we think about what the other person has just said and whether we agree with it or not agree with it. And if we don't agree with it, what are we gonna say to show them that they're wrong? And we're right. It's as simple as that. And so we, uh, listening to connect is really different than just all these other 500 kinds of listening. It has kind of a really set process. And first you need to listen to the situation. What is going on? Don't pretend that you know, don't assume that you know what's going on here. And then we gently, in a conversational style, take it a little deeper. So what's the situation? Okay, I now understand the situation. Second step is we move into like, what is this person thinking or feeling about the situation? So I might say something to the effect of like, so what are your thoughts and what. You told me what's going on here? What are your thoughts? How did that make you feel? What do you wanna do about that? The third piece is we look at the impact it has on the other person. So this is the situation and I'm feeling really frustrated about it. What, how does that impact you? And so we kind of follow that. Do you see how it's sort of a natural conversational progression and sequence? And as we do that, we're showing the other person that we're listening, and what happens to them is that their mirror, mirror neuron system kicks it, and all of a sudden they're thinking like, oh my gosh, this person is listening to me. They're interested. They don't wanna just prematurely solve my problem prematurely, give me advice. They really wanna know what's going on. So that's up for us to lead that conversation, to guide the conversation in such a way, because when we do that. We get the good hormones going, the good chemicals we get the oxytocin, other neurotransmitters flowing. Our prefrontal, our smart brain opens up and that's where we trust. And when we lead with trust and allow other people to have that experience, they can respond not only with trust, they can be better problem solvers, better thinkers, and really look at the situation with you.
Roman Trebon:Man, I love this. This is, this is awesome. It, it's interesting you said everyone drops out 12 to 18 seconds when they're listening. It's funny, Kevin drops out when I speak to'em every three to six seconds. I, I, it's so much faster. I don't know why that is. It's the a d But go ahead. I know, you, me had a question.
Kevin Metzger:Listening to what you say means so much. You know, we talk in the industry and customer success industry all the time about being a trusted advisor. Mm-hmm. And trying to get to that point of being a trusted advisor. I think a lot of people think that means you need to show everything you know. I've heard this as a saying and I think you just did a good job of demonstrating it. Doesn't know. Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
Mary Schmid:That's right. That,
Kevin Metzger:how do you align to make sure they under that? They understand you're listening to their problem, so they know that you're trying to solve the problem for them as opposed to show them what you know.
Mary Schmid:Yeah. Yeah. And that comes back to the neuroscience of conversations and that the conversations that we lead will either open up people to connect or they shut them down into protection. When we open up and connect the cor, the oxytocins starts running and we can, um. Actively engage with one another. And how do we do this? We share and discover together what's going on with you? What's going on with me? This is what I think. This is what you think. When we get that lay of the land, then we can begin to solve problems together. The problem is. That most people don't do that. They either tell people what to do, well, you tell me what to do and I'll back me into a corner. Or they use their expertise, their charts, their graphs, their knowledge to show you that I know more than you. And you know what that does? It creates this power differential like you're the expert and I'm a dummy,
Roman Trebon:uhhuh. And
Mary Schmid:people tune out and they don't trust you.
Roman Trebon:I love this. Mary, do you, do you have, and again, we, we've moved to these short segments, but I'm so intrigued by this conversation. I, I, we, we may go a little longer audience on, on this one. So for, do you have a, a, a quick, simple tip or two for people that are actually listen, trying to do better listening in terms of like, do you, I'm thinking, is it my body language, Mary? Is it, do I need to mirror your language? Do I need to summarize? Am I in the wrong path here?
Mary Schmid:You're on the, you're, you're going down a path. But I wanna get back to the basics. Okay? So if you're, if you wanna learn how to lead with trust and lead conversations that beget trust, you need to know the principles first. And from the principles then flow the specific tactics like mirroring and, and all the other skills. But the first place to start is to understand that what you say and how you say it, and your tone of voice, your eye contact, your body language, all of that. Influences the very beginning of the conversation. So how do we set up the conversation that's respectful and that triggers the brain in a positive way? I love it. And we do that by what we do, that by not telling, not showing, not persuading. We start with listening to connect. What's going on with you? What's going on in this situation? Oh, that's interesting. Can you tell me more? What did you think about that? What are you feeling about that? How did that impact you? Now you've gotten with those kinds of questions, you've gotten me totally engaged with you, and I know you're listening to me, and that is such a rare circumstance where people really, truly listen. That I will take note of that. It also frees me up to feel safe in the conversation because you listen to me, I now can speak up and speak out about what I think. So we start with the principle. You've gotta list, we know what the neuroscience is, protect or connect, and from that we then principle number one is show respect by listening to connect, not correct. I
Roman Trebon:love it. This is, this is great stuff. I, uh, we're gonna dive in more. Mary, you're coming back, right? You're coming back on Wednesday. Show you're gonna join us.
Mary Schmid:I wouldn't miss it. I wouldn't miss it for the world.
Roman Trebon:That's awesome. This has been fantastic insights for Mary. We are gonna continue this conversation'cause there's a whole a a lot more to unpack. So on we Wednesday's episode, we're gonna explore our one big question segment, which is, how can empathy boost client trust and loyalty? So in the meantime, if you enjoy our show, make sure you subscribe. So you'll get notifications, you'll know when the Wednesday episode comes out. You won't miss Friday's episode, et cetera. Uh, share it with your colleagues, share with your friends and family. Leave us a a rating, uh, a comment we're and connect with us. We really appreciate that. Uh, we'll see you on Wednesday for our one big question. And until then, Kevin, keep on.
