The Customer Success Playbook

Customer Success Playbook S3 E23 - Martin Vogel - Balancing Expansion and Customer Needs

• Kevin Metzger • Season 3 • Episode 23

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Summary: How do you expand into new verticals and regions while still keeping your current customers happy? That’s the one big question we tackle in this episode of the Customer Success Playbook Podcast. Hosts Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon welcome back Martin Vogel to explore the challenges of scaling a business while maintaining strong customer relationships.

Martin shares insights on maintaining customer intimacy at scale, the risks of focusing too much on urgent matters over important long-term goals, and why high-touch relationships can become unsustainable. He also discusses the importance of building strong foundational processes and knowledge bases to ensure seamless support, even as your customer base evolves. Plus, we get a glimpse into Martin’s productivity hacks and how he unwinds outside of the customer success world.

Detailed Analysis: Scaling a business is thrilling, but it can also create real tension between acquiring new customers and continuing to serve existing ones effectively. Martin Vogel emphasizes the necessity of prioritizing value creation at every stage of growth. His approach? Think beyond the immediate fire drills and focus on establishing processes that will support your company in the long run.

One of the biggest challenges in scaling is avoiding the common trap of over-indexing on urgent issues rather than investing in sustainable infrastructure. As your business grows, your biggest customers today may not hold the same weight tomorrow. Martin explains how early process implementation and documentation allow companies to maintain high service levels without overextending resources.

Another key theme? The evolution of customer relationships. Early-stage companies rely heavily on high-touch engagements, but as new customers flood in, this model can break down. Martin provides strategies for ensuring smaller clients don’t get drowned out by larger ones, such as implementing scalable knowledge bases and refining first-time resolution processes.

And of course, we couldn't have this discussion without touching on AI. While today’s episode stays focused on traditional scaling methods, Kevin teases Friday’s episode, where AI’s role in predictive insights and proactive service takes center stage.

Whether you're leading customer success at a startup or scaling an established enterprise, this episode is packed with practical insights you can apply right away.

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Kevin Metzger:

All right. Hello. Welcome back to the customer success playbook podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Betzger alongside my cohost, Roman Trebon. This is our Wednesday show. One big question. And we're again, joined by our guest, Martin Vogel. Hey, Martin. How are you? Yeah, I'm

Roman Trebon:

good. Martin's back. Kevin, we didn't scare him off the first episode. We, he came back to join us on Wednesday. That's always a good thing. We don't scare the audience, uh, the guests away. So Martin, this is our, but one big question episode, like Kevin said, but before we get to the one big question. We have a couple, uh, uh, smaller questions to get to know you and, and, and a little better. And, and so our first one is, do you have a go to productivity hack when you're managing multiple global teams? What's your sort of go to hack for productivity in the workplace?

Martin Vogel:

Great question. I think what I would say, um, is that One of my leaders introduced me to the 5. 15 report, which is essentially write in 15 minutes and read it in five. And I thought it was a great way to align communication up and down. And I, uh, utilize that too now for, for, for myself, as well as the team to manage up and down and have everybody aligned.

Kevin Metzger:

That's a Jeff Bezos, uh, trick, I think, isn't it? Is that where that came from? Amazon. To be

Martin Vogel:

honest, I don't even know where he comes from. I think, uh, Bezos has something similar, but I'm not sure where it's the actual 515 report. You'll have me look it up later.

Kevin Metzger:

I'm going to have to go look it up too. Roman, I feel like that was a little bit of a cheat. Instead of going on the personal side, you went, uh, you went on the business side this time.

Roman Trebon:

I mean, no, I didn't make it too personal, Kev. So reel us back in here. What's the personal question here since I went off the mark already?

Kevin Metzger:

All right. So when you're not busy with customer success, what's your favorite way to unwind? Yeah, I

Martin Vogel:

listen to a lot of podcasts and audiobooks, and I do some endurance sports. Nice, nice. I see that, uh, Iron

Kevin Metzger:

Man

Martin Vogel:

behind you. Yes. That was one of those endurance things that I did was a long day.

Kevin Metzger:

One last question. If you could time travel to any error for one day, where would you go? And why

Martin Vogel:

is not a really great question. And not that easy. Let me say, I think I would go to new year's Eve in the year 3000 and the reason why. is because I think back to the hype that we had, uh, year 2000, right, and how we reflected back. So I want to see in year 3000 how we look back at the crazy people in the year 2000, the how AI all got started, right, really. And now we're in year 3000 and probably Serving our AIs at this point, I don't know. Yeah, we have a big Y3K panic,

Roman Trebon:

right? Y3K.

Kevin Metzger:

That was awesome, uh, to learn more about you, Martin. Now let's jump into our one big question for today. How do you balance the demands of rapidly expanding into new verticals or regions while ensuring you don't lose sight of existing customer needs?

Martin Vogel:

Let me bring it down to maybe just one thing, everything you're doing and all your results come back to the value you create day to day. If you keep that in mind at any stage, then I think you're setting yourself up pretty well for the success to come. Scaling while maintaining that customer. Intimacy is a big challenge, right? At the beginning, you're small, high touch, you are very close to, so it's relatively easy, right? Different challenges, but as you grow, there's going to be two major challenges that I see. Number one, you're in a state where you focus on the urgent over the important, and you're scrambling, right? And number two, it's high touch relationships. That are essentially not scalable. And while both of those are important at that stage, you need to be aware of where you're going and the way that I say is look at it from a build a foundation perspective. So every day, even though you're scrambling, even though you're running on iHookDane, you need to think about, okay, what I'm doing now, how can I frame that in a way that allows me to build on in the future? And if you take that approach, you set yourself up for a easier life as you scale. So practically, it means to just, as you go, really take the time to build playbooks, document it, create a knowledge base that you can revert back to, uh, when you onboard new customers or eventually AI agents.

Roman Trebon:

So, so martin, let me ask, and I don't know if you've had an experience like this, but I am curious. So, like, if you have, as your, as your company is scaling, as you're getting bigger, you're growing as an organization. You, you know, you may have a customer that was a big fish when you first obtained them. Right. And so they're used to a certain level of service. And then as you grow, they become a smaller and smaller fish because you're acquiring bigger clients. Have you had a situation like that? How do you deal with that support? You know, so you. Again, there, you know, it's an adjustment in both, you know, you need to scale your support to handle these, these new customers, these new verticals, regions, whatever it may be, but you still have those existing customers and where they fit into your organization, um, may change. So if you have experienced that, any, any tips for audience who may be gone through that. Thinking

Martin Vogel:

that those big fish will go away, it will not happen, right? So we had anchor customers that we won. One of them was a very large airport food and beverage operator where we had over, yeah, close to 300 installations, right? That was then followed by a, a national, uh, warehouse chain that again had over 350 installations. Those are very, very big account, uh, important from support perspective, but they're also High demand and, and of course, uh, because of their weight, uh, fairly loud because of their volume, it was. Relatively easy to put the weight behind them, but I think what we really realized is that we had another customer base that was catering more to the entertainment sector, I think, casinos and so on, and those were Vastly different in that it was smaller customers. So rather than one customer with 300 installations is one customer with maybe one or two installations. They of course had the same demands, right? The same challenges like the large ones. And it was very, very challenging and important to not have them droned out by those big whales. And I think really what helps. Do that is to ensure that you have a solid process that allows you to render efficient support. So we saw at the beginning that the teams are inefficient, right? So we have a team, but the documentation was not correct or not deep enough for not in a meaningful way, right? So that each interaction took way too long, or we ended up misdiagnosing, as I mentioned last. Uh, Monday, right? We misdiagnosed and as a result, our first time resolve rate was too low. And once you realize that you need to act fast and you need to correct that because otherwise the scale is not going to go away, right? So you need to ensure that you have those processes in place and that you support your team. With process and the documentation needed in order to be successful, then not only for the big customers, but also for the small ones that may otherwise drown in, in, in the noise.

Kevin Metzger:

Yeah. So really part of what you're saying is from the beginning, if you put process in place the proper way from the beginning, and as you recognize and do your after action reports and gather and build your process and knowledge base. Basically provides the structure for the, the support going forward. So that as larger customers basically become smaller because you're getting even larger customers, you've got the process in place to support, give them the same expected support levels with, with really some less effort because you've built the structure around it to begin with and eventually, and I'm. Excited. If you don't know, my favorite day is AI Friday. When we go into it, I

Martin Vogel:

was going to go there.

Kevin Metzger:

So eventually it puts it, you know, and we'll be seeing a lot of that. We already started to see a lot of that and we'll be seeing even more of it as we go with AI agents and all that they'll be able to take advantage of the structure you put in place and the knowledge basis to, to help drive that support. But automation's always helped with that.

Martin Vogel:

No, I I'm really excited about what you're saying, right? Because. Particularly if you're a startup, right? And you get to build that from ground up. Scalability is a completely different animal now because you can scale with agents relatively easily, right? If you have a solid foundation. So you build your foundation properly, you scale like a rockstar, right? Whereas before, You, you need to scale through humans and make sure that they do things right. And that was always a challenge. So this tremendously expensive, exciting shift that we're experiencing the customer success and customer support space from my point of view.

Roman Trebon:

Yeah. And you guys have teed up Friday's episode very well. So kudos to you both. Right. So thanks for giving us a, you know, a real practical look here at balancing kind of growth and retention. So on Friday, as you guys mentioned, you'll be, you'll come back. We're going to wrap up this three part series talking about really digging into how AI can enable predictive insights and proactive service and post sale operations. So I know we're all excited about that. So, uh, for our audience, don't forget to subscribe, like us, give us a review that helps us, uh, get to more and more customer success professionals like yourselves and until next time, Kevin, keep on playing.

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Kevin Metzger

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Roman Trebon

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Martin Vogel

Guest