CSP S3 E7 - Keith Hanks - #1 Tip - Love Your Customers, Tolerate Your Prospects

Summary

Keith Hanks introduces a groundbreaking perspective on customer profiling by distinguishing between the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) and what he terms the Actual Customer Profile (ACP). Drawing from his extensive experience in client success and program management, Hanks emphasizes the critical shift that occurs post-contract signing, highlighting how organizations must adapt their approach to serve and understand their existing customer base effectively.

Detailed Analysis

The Evolution of Customer Profiles

The discussion reveals a fundamental transformation in how businesses should approach customer relationships in the modern era. Hanks introduces the concept of "love your customers, tolerate your prospects," emphasizing the distinct difference between pre-sale targeting and post-sale reality. This perspective challenges traditional customer profiling methods by acknowledging the gap between theoretical ideal customers and actual client relationships.

Impact of Modern Work Dynamics

A crucial insight emerges regarding the changing nature of customer relationships in the post-COVID landscape:

• Decreased tenure of client contacts due to remote work flexibility
• Reduced impact of non-compete clauses
• Accelerated need for re-onboarding and re-engagement strategies
• Growing importance of adaptable customer success strategies

Cross-Functional Implications

The analysis highlights the necessity for enhanced cross-functional collaboration:

• Integration between sales, marketing, and product teams
• Need for ongoing comparison between target profiles and actual customer behavior
• Importance of adaptive learning and engagement strategies
• Focus on developing next-generation power users

Strategic Recommendations

1. Regular assessment of actual customer profiles against ideal customer profiles
2. Development of micro-learning opportunities for evolving customer needs
3. Implementation of power user identification and development programs
4. Creation of adaptive engagement strategies for varying customer tenures
5. Integration of AI tools for streamlined customer understanding

Business Impact Considerations

• Shorter CRO tenures (averaging 17 months) affecting strategic continuity
• Need for robust customer success metrics aligned with actual usage patterns
• Importance of identifying and nurturing power users
• Focus on sustainable customer relationships over initial targeting

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Transcript

Kevin Metzger: 0:05

Customer success.

Roman Trebon: 0:10

Hi everyone, and welcome to the Customer Success Playbook podcast, where we bring you actionable insights, quick tips, and fresh ideas for driving customer success. 2025 has already gone fast, and for week three, we're bringing it strong. I'm your host, Roman Reon, and I'm back together again with my co-host Kevin Metzker. Kev, how's it feel not to get interviewed this week?

Kevin Metzger: 0:33

Yeah, it's good, man. I'm excited to have our first guest of the year on. He's not a host. It's just you and I, it's been you, it's been me. We interviewed each other. We've got a new

Roman Trebon: 0:42

guest.

Kevin Metzger: 0:43

So I'm excited to welcome Keith Hanks to the show. Keith is an experienced professional specializing in client success, program management, and customer experience. His expertise spans account management, risk mitigation, and cross functional collaboration. Keith is a thought leader and go to market strategies and customer journey mapping. And Keith has held leadership roles in companies such as Wellavee and Epsilon showcasing his skills in scaling solutions and driving measurable impact. Keith, welcome to the show.

Keith Hanks: 1:16

Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Roman. Excited to be here today.

Roman Trebon: 1:18

Keith, we're excited to have you on. And so our Monday show is our guest number one tip. So let's jump right into it, Keith. What is your number one tip for our audience about developing the ideal customer profile and how it relates to the actual customer profile? My number one

Keith Hanks: 1:37

tip here is to basically start with a phrase that went way back early in my career. And it is love your customers. But tolerate your prospects, and that phrase right there really resonates to me. Basically, the idea here is all of our organizations out there, they have a really dialed in ICP. Marketing is using it, sales is using it, the product team is using it. But that ICP doesn't mean anything. Once that e sign has occurred, and once that e sign has occurred, I want people to think about a new way of viewing this. And I want you, instead of thinking of ICP, I want you to think of ACP. And by ACP, I mean Actual Customer Profile. And what that means is, if you're in new client onboarding, If you're in customer support or if you're in customer success or account management, these are the realities of what is in your client base that you're going to be working with for the next few months or the next few years.

Kevin Metzger: 2:42

So the ACP is the profile of the customer. That's the customer that you love, right? If this is who you're supposed to love, the ICP is what you got to tolerate.

Keith Hanks: 2:53

Exactly. ICP is who you want to attract. I mean, you can think about this as much as dating and courtship. Who's your type versus who are you in a relationship with, who are you married to? And depending on who's listening out there, that might resonate in different ways to different people. But the, the point being there is the, all those traits in the ICP, the demographics, the firmographics, the technographics, and the behaviors that is going to look very, very different once that e sign has occurred and the rubber meets the road. And those folks start getting into your platform and have to start using the product. Day in and day out. So this is really where your cross functional leadership and those in the customer success field or the customer experience field are really tested to work cross functionally with sales, with marketing, with product, um, business analysis, being able to come in and run these comparisons. of how the actual realities of today, the actual users and the actual customers, how they look and behave compared to what's being targeted. And the other reason that's important is, you know, if we think about this from a micro learning standpoint and an ongoing engagement standpoint, this is going to tell you a lot about how you need to respond to these different personas and to these different groups.

Roman Trebon: 4:15

I love this number one tip. I think you may have trademarked actual customer profile. I love that term. I've not heard that before. Kev, you heard that before? I don't think I have.

Keith Hanks: 4:25

I think I accidentally trademarked it myself. I typed into Google with quotes on it and I don't see anyone else that's grabbed it. And for those that follow me on LinkedIn, I write a weekly newsletter called a better customer experience. We wrote about this topic a couple of weeks back as well. And I was surprised that no one is using this phrase or this term, but I do feel like a lot of folks in the customer success community. Do you talk this way, especially amongst each other, especially amongst closed doors. And if you think about it, one of the biggest drivers of this is actually our world after COVID. So if we were to go back 10 years ago, your client contacts probably had a little bit longer tenure, a little bit longer longevity. And one of the reasons for that is the non compete clauses. If they want to get another job, they have to be same town commute office, 50 mile radius. Fast forward, you know, it's 2025. You can be working cross country or across the world anywhere, and that really changes it up. So we already know the tenure of CSMs is getting lower at the, at least at the moment, but we're sometimes forgetting that those client contacts, their tenures are shrinking as well. So when it comes to not just an ongoing learning standpoint, but a re onboarding, a re engagement standpoint, Organizations are having to do this much faster, much quicker. And thankfully, we're going to have some of the AI tools coming down the pike as well. That's going to continue to make this easier for folks, whether it's identifying pathways or just helping streamline some of this solutioning. But the reality is your actual customers. Their tenure and their capabilities are not what they used to be from five or 10 years ago.

Kevin Metzger: 6:10

While I haven't really heard the term used as a term, actual customer profile, I do think when you go back through a customer journey mapping, or when you do go through the ideal customer profile, if you're coming into a company that and redefining it or defining it, I think. That's such a huge piece of making sure that you're looking at what your existing customers are, the ones that are being that are successful, right? With the ones that are renewing. Are you looking at the profile of those customers? Once you've renewed once you know, you're, you're servicing well, and once you are happy with your product, and Realigning your ICP with what your ACP shows. I think that's a something that is a is an exercise that's important to be doing.

Keith Hanks: 6:59

Absolutely. And that's one of the objectives here is to treat this as an opportunity to take this ACP, this actual customer pro and treat it as an ICP. And one of the other reasons that that can be important is mostly organizations that your audience is going to be working at and listening from. They're probably going to be in an organization that has a CRO VP of SaaS sales. These folks have been hit hard in the last few years. Their 10 years are at all time lows. I think down to about 17 months on average, that's only one or two annual sales conferences they're going to be at. So when you kind of look at that from that lens as well, the more years that your client is renewing. And the more likely that those contacts have turned over a few times, the more likely some of those stakeholders that e signed might no longer be there. And really, this is going to, this really pushes and challenges to how do you create that next generation of power users? So Kevin, when you're talking about that type of analysis, those traits. Where I like to look is inside the product, inside the usage. I like to look at the traits of who are those power users? Who are the folks that, that are coming up with those ideas, pushing the product to new levels, asking the tough questions, because they're trying to get somewhere with their career. They're trying to do the right thing with your software. How do you kind of bottle up the way that they're approaching your product and be able to identify those traits? Put them into personas and make sure that you have ongoing micro learning, micro experiences, and micro opportunities for them to continue and evolve.

Roman Trebon: 8:37

I love how you set the table between the differences between an ideal customer profile and an actual customer profile on Wednesday, we'll be back with our one big question segment. All right. So that's where Keith, we're going to dive into why it makes sense to prioritize the actual profile. Over the ideal profile and what that means to your business again. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Make sure you subscribe. So you don't miss it and we'll see on our next episode until then. Keep on playing.